Comments on: The Folder-Less SharePoint Paradigm http://www.siolon.com/blog/the-folder-less-sharepoint-paradigm/ Musings on SharePoint, User Experience, and More Fri, 10 Feb 2012 08:40:41 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Maulik http://www.siolon.com/blog/the-folder-less-sharepoint-paradigm/comment-page-1/#comment-11161 Maulik Fri, 10 Feb 2012 08:40:41 +0000 http://www.siolon.com/?p=308#comment-11161 Even though a habit it was the first step in organizing files. Many people use folder without much problem so many people have this bad habit :) Sure it has its limitations, but for simple use cases it serves the purpose without complicating the structure. Here there are two things for me when it comes to intuitiveness, finding the right file or navigation. As it is now, the metadata navigation is not really intuitive or consistent. At one point or the other you will need grouping of the metadata (or a folder). You can't have your hundreds of metadata terms on the top level. There are ways to organize metadata right now, but they are far from being simple and intuitiveness for non-developers. And document set has its own limitations too. So if I have to trade in some capabilities for gaining others then it is not really an alternative. I am in for metadata and I am looking for better ways to create navigation with metadata. But right now, it's just not possible for me to rely solely on metadata. Hence metadata+folder works best for me and many others. I am sure as metadata approach becomes more mature offering much for user friendly UI and navigation it could replace the good old folder mess. But then again misusing metadata may create the same mess. Even though a habit it was the first step in organizing files. Many people use folder without much problem so many people have this bad habit :) Sure it has its limitations, but for simple use cases it serves the purpose without complicating the structure.
Here there are two things for me when it comes to intuitiveness, finding the right file or navigation. As it is now, the metadata navigation is not really intuitive or consistent. At one point or the other you will need grouping of the metadata (or a folder). You can’t have your hundreds of metadata terms on the top level. There are ways to organize metadata right now, but they are far from being simple and intuitiveness for non-developers.
And document set has its own limitations too. So if I have to trade in some capabilities for gaining others then it is not really an alternative.

I am in for metadata and I am looking for better ways to create navigation with metadata. But right now, it’s just not possible for me to rely solely on metadata. Hence metadata+folder works best for me and many others. I am sure as metadata approach becomes more mature offering much for user friendly UI and navigation it could replace the good old folder mess. But then again misusing metadata may create the same mess.

]]> By: john d http://www.siolon.com/blog/the-folder-less-sharepoint-paradigm/comment-page-1/#comment-11155 john d Thu, 09 Feb 2012 17:24:11 +0000 http://www.siolon.com/?p=308#comment-11155 There is not really anything intuitive about folders at all to me - what you call intuitive I call habit :) A bad one too. The only time I truly would like to use "folders" I find that a document set is much more elegant There is not really anything intuitive about folders at all to me — what you call intuitive I call habit :) A bad one too. The only time I truly would like to use “folders” I find that a document set is much more elegant

]]> By: Tyler http://www.siolon.com/blog/the-folder-less-sharepoint-paradigm/comment-page-1/#comment-10411 Tyler Thu, 20 Oct 2011 15:27:27 +0000 http://www.siolon.com/?p=308#comment-10411 True. But I think there are still cases where you might not be able to filter metadata to a level where you're getting what you're looking for. (I'm for views.. this case has come up for me though). True. But I think there are still cases where you might not be able to filter metadata to a level where you’re getting what you’re looking for. (I’m for views.. this case has come up for me though).

]]> By: Chris Poteet http://www.siolon.com/blog/the-folder-less-sharepoint-paradigm/comment-page-1/#comment-10410 Chris Poteet Thu, 20 Oct 2011 15:16:49 +0000 http://www.siolon.com/?p=308#comment-10410 Tyler, that's actually incorrect. Anytime you change a view the URL changes in the browser. You can even change the URL in the edit view screen. They can be sent out just fine. Tyler, that’s actually incorrect. Anytime you change a view the URL changes in the browser. You can even change the URL in the edit view screen. They can be sent out just fine.

]]> By: Tyler http://www.siolon.com/blog/the-folder-less-sharepoint-paradigm/comment-page-1/#comment-10409 Tyler Thu, 20 Oct 2011 15:10:31 +0000 http://www.siolon.com/?p=308#comment-10409 This might have been said already, but there are cases where you want to email a shortcut to a set of documents to someone. This can be done on a folder, not on a view. It all depends on how users are using the data and how they need to access it (and what kind of content is in a library). This might have been said already, but there are cases where you want to email a shortcut to a set of documents to someone. This can be done on a folder, not on a view. It all depends on how users are using the data and how they need to access it (and what kind of content is in a library).

]]> By: Maulik http://www.siolon.com/blog/the-folder-less-sharepoint-paradigm/comment-page-1/#comment-10380 Maulik Mon, 10 Oct 2011 14:44:08 +0000 http://www.siolon.com/?p=308#comment-10380 Both approaches have their problems and benefits. However, it seems that metadata approach leans on benefits side more than the folder approach. But I am not convinced that the metadata approach is as intuitive as folders even though it's more flexible. Ofcourse one can learn a new paradigm and train, but I still don't see it being as intuitive as folders. Folders put users in an appropriate hierarchical context, which makes it easier for us to understand where the user is. The problem with nesting folders is that it's not easy to see an overview and find the right one. Right now a folder represents only a single possible hierarchy for a document, however a document could belong to two logical branches. That's where I would like the flexibility of metadata. But right now metadata approach in SharePoint does not present an intuitive way of navigating and defining right hierarchical contexts for a document. I think if we come to a marriage between intuitiveness of folders and flexibility of metadata we will have a much better solution. I like the wordpress tagging feature where I can define a hierarchy and also assign multiple tags to a single post. And the flexibility can come from the ability of metadata to be presented hierarchically as well flat. Both approaches have their problems and benefits. However, it seems that metadata approach leans on benefits side more than the folder approach. But I am not convinced that the metadata approach is as intuitive as folders even though it’s more flexible. Ofcourse one can learn a new paradigm and train, but I still don’t see it being as intuitive as folders. Folders put users in an appropriate hierarchical context, which makes it easier for us to understand where the user is. The problem with nesting folders is that it’s not easy to see an overview and find the right one. Right now a folder represents only a single possible hierarchy for a document, however a document could belong to two logical branches. That’s where I would like the flexibility of metadata. But right now metadata approach in SharePoint does not present an intuitive way of navigating and defining right hierarchical contexts for a document. I think if we come to a marriage between intuitiveness of folders and flexibility of metadata we will have a much better solution. I like the wordpress tagging feature where I can define a hierarchy and also assign multiple tags to a single post. And the flexibility can come from the ability of metadata to be presented hierarchically as well flat.

]]> By: Simon P http://www.siolon.com/blog/the-folder-less-sharepoint-paradigm/comment-page-1/#comment-10352 Simon P Wed, 28 Sep 2011 00:26:26 +0000 http://www.siolon.com/?p=308#comment-10352 I really agree with the whole idea of driving views etc by metadata. The real gotcha for me in my organisation is libraries with a large number of documents (30,000+) and the use of Explorer view and the performance problems that view causes. The Explorer view reminds me of the quote 'Just when I try to get out, they pull me back in'. The Explorer view seems to be the only way (out of the box) to change the file extension of a file. Similarly when you create a document from a template, and click Save it shows the Explorer view and all documents in that library with the same file extension. **sigh** I really agree with the whole idea of driving views etc by metadata.

The real gotcha for me in my organisation is libraries with a large number of documents (30,000+) and the use of Explorer view and the performance problems that view causes.

The Explorer view reminds me of the quote ‘Just when I try to get out, they pull me back in’.

The Explorer view seems to be the only way (out of the box) to change the file extension of a file. Similarly when you create a document from a template, and click Save it shows the Explorer view and all documents in that library with the same file extension.

**sigh**

]]> By: Hugo http://www.siolon.com/blog/the-folder-less-sharepoint-paradigm/comment-page-1/#comment-10351 Hugo Tue, 27 Sep 2011 14:01:27 +0000 http://www.siolon.com/?p=308#comment-10351 Sorry Chris, as I say I am not that well versed in this area so I might be using the wrong terminology, or even be making a fundamental error in my site design so please bear with me. The information I am trying to organize is quite basic and consists almost entirely of fixed office documents and images (j.pegs) that will be uploaded/downloaded for sharing and reference but not for working on while on SharePoint. Our site will be relatively simple in what it is used for (literally sharing images and files across different international offices) and there are many functions of SP that we will not use. In other words we are using it much like a drive but with proper governance to try and ensure correct practices. The actual organisation of these files can be done using document libraries which fit our needs well. However the issue for us is how to structure the layers of navigation from site level down to the document libraries themselves. To give an example, the site as a whole will have 5 sub sites that represent different regions. Then take one in isolation, for example the sub site for the Americas. The organisation from the home page of the site then has to be split by country, then by brand, and then at this point I will leverage multiple document libraries to store the relevant documents. Therefore it is these two layers of navigation (after regional sub site) that will lead the user to the correct country, then the correct brand before selecting the correct document library to access or upload at the correct location. On a drive they would appear simply as other folders to click through but this use of folders is what I am trying desperately to avoid. Ideally it would be incredible to have the flexibility to add as many layers of navigation as is necessary through the same method. Is this any clearer? I have some site maps I could email if possible? As ever, without taking up too much of your time any help would be greatly appreciated. Hugo Sorry Chris, as I say I am not that well versed in this area so I might be using the wrong terminology, or even be making a fundamental error in my site design so please bear with me.
The information I am trying to organize is quite basic and consists almost entirely of fixed office documents and images (j.pegs) that will be uploaded/downloaded for sharing and reference but not for working on while on SharePoint. Our site will be relatively simple in what it is used for (literally sharing images and files across different international offices) and there are many functions of SP that we will not use. In other words we are using it much like a drive but with proper governance to try and ensure correct practices.
The actual organisation of these files can be done using document libraries which fit our needs well. However the issue for us is how to structure the layers of navigation from site level down to the document libraries themselves. To give an example, the site as a whole will have 5 sub sites that represent different regions. Then take one in isolation, for example the sub site for the Americas. The organisation from the home page of the site then has to be split by country, then by brand, and then at this point I will leverage multiple document libraries to store the relevant documents. Therefore it is these two layers of navigation (after regional sub site) that will lead the user to the correct country, then the correct brand before selecting the correct document library to access or upload at the correct location. On a drive they would appear simply as other folders to click through but this use of folders is what I am trying desperately to avoid. Ideally it would be incredible to have the flexibility to add as many layers of navigation as is necessary through the same method.
Is this any clearer? I have some site maps I could email if possible? As ever, without taking up too much of your time any help would be greatly appreciated.
Hugo

]]> By: Chris Poteet http://www.siolon.com/blog/the-folder-less-sharepoint-paradigm/comment-page-1/#comment-10350 Chris Poteet Tue, 27 Sep 2011 01:41:55 +0000 http://www.siolon.com/?p=308#comment-10350 Sorry Hugh, but without a clear understanding of the information you're trying to organize I can't be of any assistance. Remember though that you can leverage multiple document libraries which might help in your case. Sorry Hugh, but without a clear understanding of the information you’re trying to organize I can’t be of any assistance. Remember though that you can leverage multiple document libraries which might help in your case.

]]> By: Hugo http://www.siolon.com/blog/the-folder-less-sharepoint-paradigm/comment-page-1/#comment-10349 Hugo Mon, 26 Sep 2011 15:43:42 +0000 http://www.siolon.com/?p=308#comment-10349 Dear Chris and all I have an enquiry that is related to but not directly regarding the above discussion but there seems to be lots of expertise here so hopefully you can help me. I am not a techy person but I am computer literate and have had some SharePoint training and been charged with the task of constructing a SP site for my company to replace the old, bloated one which got out of hand quickly due to the excessive use of folders. One thing I am not familiar with is SP designer so I am trying to build the site just using the functions available through full authority with the Site Actions. My issue is mentioned briefly above by Amir Kashmiri and it is one of navigation/organisation of the site without using excessive layers of folders. Basically the site I want to produce will necessarily have many layers of organisation due to it's size and scope. There are a number of sub sites at the top end and document libraries at the bottom (some of which will contain folders but they should only ever be one layer deep.) However on most of the sub sites users will need to pass through 3 layers of navigation before they reach the document library holding what they want or providing the correct space for an upload. What function does SharePoint provide to produce these layers without uising folders? I am sure this must be very obvious to an expert but I am struggling. I already have enough sub sites and they are not suitable for the purpose, you cannot populate lists/libraries with other lists/libraries therefore they are no use until the actual storage stage and I have not found an effective way to do it with pages that would protect the end user and site from unwanted alterations. This has left me at a bit of a blank. The whole point of this redesign was to make navigation to the correct document/storage space very simple (without layer after layer of folder) but I cannot achieve this without having the freedom to add as many layers as is necessary and the only way I have found to do so is folders but that comes with all the above problems attached (and more..!) I hope this question is not out of place in this thread and any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for taking time even to read. Best Wishes H Dear Chris and all

I have an enquiry that is related to but not directly regarding the above discussion but there seems to be lots of expertise here so hopefully you can help me.

I am not a techy person but I am computer literate and have had some SharePoint training and been charged with the task of constructing a SP site for my company to replace the old, bloated one which got out of hand quickly due to the excessive use of folders. One thing I am not familiar with is SP designer so I am trying to build the site just using the functions available through full authority with the Site Actions.

My issue is mentioned briefly above by Amir Kashmiri and it is one of navigation/organisation of the site without using excessive layers of folders. Basically the site I want to produce will necessarily have many layers of organisation due to it’s size and scope. There are a number of sub sites at the top end and document libraries at the bottom (some of which will contain folders but they should only ever be one layer deep.) However on most of the sub sites users will need to pass through 3 layers of navigation before they reach the document library holding what they want or providing the correct space for an upload. What function does SharePoint provide to produce these layers without uising folders?

I am sure this must be very obvious to an expert but I am struggling. I already have enough sub sites and they are not suitable for the purpose, you cannot populate lists/libraries with other lists/libraries therefore they are no use until the actual storage stage and I have not found an effective way to do it with pages that would protect the end user and site from unwanted alterations. This has left me at a bit of a blank.

The whole point of this redesign was to make navigation to the correct document/storage space very simple (without layer after layer of folder) but I cannot achieve this without having the freedom to add as many layers as is necessary and the only way I have found to do so is folders but that comes with all the above problems attached (and more..!)

I hope this question is not out of place in this thread and any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for taking time even to read. Best Wishes

H

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